On Women Writers in Malaysia and Indonesia: Interview with Dr. Norhayati Ab. Rahman

I met Dr. Yati during Kompen, the poetry convention in Kelantan, in July 2018. We have deepened our friendship over time, thanks to the common interest in literature and poetry. Last year I also managed to visit the university where she teaches in Kuala Lumpur, discovering among the various books in her library a book by Alberto Moravia, one of the most famous authors of novels in Italy. Furthermore, the theme of her most famous books is precisely that of gender, of the stylistic differences between Indonesian and Malaysian women writers, so the interest to interview her was born so that others may also enjoy her culture and studies. 

Your book "Puitika Sastera Wanita Indonesia dan Malaysia: Satu Bacaan Ginokritik" (Penerbit USM) is now a bestseller and it has a new version in English (ITBM). How long did it take you to write it and how did the idea come about? Tell us the history of this book.

Thank God. This book was written in 3 years and was first published by USM Press. The book has won two major and prestigious prizes in Malaysia, the Malaysian Prime Literary Prize (HSPM, 2013), and the National Academic Award (AAN, 2014) of the best book publishing category. After winning the two major prizes, there was a request from the foreign party so the book was translated into English. For that purpose, USM Press in collaboration with the Institute of Translation and Book Malaysia (ITBM) has taken the initiative to republish this book in English entitled The Poetics of Women's Writing in Indonesia and Malaysia: A Gynocritics Reading (2016).

This study is based on the awareness that literary works by male authors often portray women with stereotyped images, marginalized women's experiences, women's voices are muted and forms of exposure that only highlight male-centeredness. Therefore, this study attempts to prove that women have their own image, experience, voice, desire, vision, language and culture. These women-centeredness attributes can only be highlighted by studying the texts produced by women authors. Hence, a review of the novels by the author of this woman will apply the suggested models in the gynocritics approach by Elaine Showalter. Reflecting on the hypothesis that the authors of the authors have specific attributes that can be linked to a variety of environmental factors, this study attempts to identify aspects that influence the process of poetic formation in novel writings in both countries involved.

 

What is in your opinion the fundamental characteristic of the Malaysian woman and the similarities and differences with the Indonesian woman, also in the literary field, since in the book you have also analyzed the texts of Indo-Malayan authors?

In general, the traits of women in Malaysia and Indonesia have been shaped by the customs, the beliefs of the community and the religious beliefs of the ideal characteristics of the Malay women, which include being a wife, mother, son-in-law and daughter, lacking authority, but loyal, respecting the husband completely, behaving well and attracting, capable of giving birth, male as head of family and women is obligated to obey men.

The findings of this study have shown that women writers in both countries, whether consciously or unconsciously, utilize all the formula proposed by Showalter in her methodology for  gynocritic readings. Therefore, Indonesian and Malaysian novels studied indicate that the thinking and creative process that underline their production is linked to the experience and imagination of their writers. This demonstrates that the formation of female poetics in Indonesia and Malaysia is based on experience, creativity and imagination that is closely related to aspects of women’s biology, language, psyche and cultural surrounding these  women. However, their fearlessness and spirit are not equal. There are obvious differences that can be observed in the way’s issues are dealt with and these differences indicate the dissimilarities in the thinking of writers in these two countries, which affects the poetics of women’s writing in both, Indonesia and Malaysia.

This study shows that Indonesia writers have come forward to deal with a variety of shocking issues that have introduced some new, innovative elements that have affected their themes, language and thinking. The analysis of women’s writing in Indonesia and Malaysia also shows the developments of women’s writing in both countries. For example, in Indonesia, innovations introduced by writers such as Ayu Utami have been a model for other writers of her generations to follow; among them Dewi Lestari (Dee), Dinar Rahayu, Djenar Maesa Ayu, Fira Basuki, Nova Riyanti Yusuf and Herlinatiens.

Dewi Lestari (Dee), one of the most loved and bestselling Indonesian female writers. Frankfurt, 2014. Photo by Yuliani Liputo

These writers have all come out to write about critical issues, with a freshness in languages,  radical thinking and a styles all of their own. This development has proven to be an important turning point and brought about a change and innovation in Indonesian literature. However, in Malaysia, innovations pioneered by Azmah Nordin and Fatimah Busu, for example, have not had an obvious effect on women’s writing, whether among their own generation or after them. This study also reveals the true desire of women. Based on that which is written in these novels, women on the whole show that they wish to have the rights and freedoms that they feel are due to them. The rights and freedom are loosely defined and often subjective. However, what is most obvious is that women wish to free themselves from the shackles imposed to express their personal desire and the principles that they hold to in their lives. Unless enumerated and expressed in the open, this will not bring any benefit to women themselves. In the context of struggling for liberation, Indonesia women writers are seen to be more vocal and radical. They highlight such matters as sexual desire, and personal choice in matters of the heart and the right to refuse marriage, in order to challenge patriarchic discourse and to possess as well the use of unique women’s language.

Malaysian women writers are much more subdued when it comes to expressing women’s wishes and calling for women’s rights. They also do not express everything that is within them, such as subjects considers personal and taboo. This situation indicates that Malaysian women writers are incapable of fully utilizing their creativity, imaginations and experiences in their writing. In order to gain these rights, it is necessary for women to be more outspoken than before, and it is this that women writers from Indonesia are trying to do. Their expression  is seen as one of the way to reveal  the feelings and desire of women. In this way, women will be able to play their full role in textual productions, as advocated by gynocritics. Still, there are situation factors, especially in relation to Islam and custom, that have an influence on the level of outspokenness of the writers, and their creative process.

Authors are much simpler in revealing their desires and demanding women's rights. They also did not succeed in expressing anything hidden in themselves, especially personal and taboos. This situation shows that Malaysian women authors are not capable of making full use of their creativity, imagination and experience in writing. In order to have these rights, women are in fact needing a greater degree of courage than before and that is what the authors of women have tried, especially Indonesian authors. The phrase is seen as one way to expose women's feelings and desires. In that way, women will be able to fully play their role as a textual producer suggested by the gynocritic. However, in Malaysia there are also environmental factors, particularly in relation to customary and Islamic religions that also influence and determine the level of courage and openness of authors in their creativity process.

Based on the situation in both countries, it is evident that on the whole, women writers in both countries wish to see innovations in writing to ensure that their works are not stereotypical and boring. They feel that conventional ways of writing are insufficient to convey their emotional outburst and new, more complex and sophisticated ways of thinking. They want to see a change in storytelling and are not satisfied with merely using existing styles of writing. For this purpose, they attempt certain innovations in their writing styles, to be better suited to express the sensitivity, creativity and imagination of women. As a result, a number of women writers have made novels their vehicles for conveying hitherto unheard or only partly-known women’s experiences to the rest of the world. Women also share the same problem – that of men conspiring to drown out and ignore women’s hopes and dreams, such as been done by Ayu Utami, Oka Rusmini, Toeti Heraty and Titis Basino in Indonesia, as well as Azmah Nordin, Fatimah Busu, Rosmini Shaari and Zaharah Nawawi in Malaysia; has given women everywhere a renewed hope. Indirectly, the developments that have taken place in women’s writing can be seen as having brought women out of  the "barren land" to the “promise land” such as the fervent wish of feminist.

 

Ayu Utami, among the first Indonesian women novelists to break the traditional role and barrier for woman in writing fiction. Frankfurt, 2015. Photo by Yuliani Liputo

Certainly you know the "Madame Bovary syndrome", from the novel by Flaubert, a behavioral disorder that arises from the appearance of romantic novels of the nineteenth century. Since then, the idealization of love has brought thousands of people (mostly women) to continue the frustration and disappointment. The search for this "ideal love" always comes into conflict with the realistic perception of a conjugal relationship. We talk of a psychopathology described for the first time in 1892 by the philosopher Jules de Gaultier. In his essay, based on the literary work of Madame Bovary, he refers to the figure of her protagonist, Emma, as the perfect stereotype of the suffering person who has defined "a chronic affective dissatisfaction". Psychological disorder really felt in Europe. Do you think it's a universal syndrome that also affects the Malaysian woman? Is there any trace of this also in Malaysians  novels and poems written by women?

In the model of female psychology, Showalter outlines the psychological characteristics that can be linked to women’s writing, “the difference of women’s writing in author’s psyche, and in the relation of gender to creative process” (Showalter, 1982:23). This statement indicate that construction of women character’s psyche is closely related to the author’s psychological background, experience and situation. Showalter also says that women write with a sense of inferiority and guilt, and tend to conceal their writing activities. They are also said to tend towards narratives of suffering and hardship, which are a form of therapy to release psychological stress. Women’s psyche has also been formed since childhood, based on the similarities, continuity and identification with their mothers. The symbiotic mother-daughter relationship as a source of creativity for women writers.

The real psychological disturbances in Europe do not occur in literary works written by female authors in Malaysia. Rafeah Yusuf's first female author, Cinta Budiman (The Budiman Love) in 1941,  for example, illustrates the story of a woman's life at the time, about a wife's (Halimah) loyalty after left behind by her husband (Salim) ) for going to war. Halimah is described as a very devoted woman to her husband. Loyalty is a value that should be present in every good woman according to the religious and customary views of society. Religion and tradition are the elements that have enormous power over the life and thought of the Malay community. Through this novel, the author also depicts women who have gained higher education as men who study in French schools and English schools. The emphasis on the role of women in the public sphere was highlighted by Kamariah Saadon through the involvement of women in various associations and community movements in her village.

The author depicts the high patriotic spirit of the male soul in the struggle against the homeland. The author asserts that women are also fighting for the natives and nations in different ways. Through this novel, the authors demonstrate ways to fight for and improve women's position by expanding the scope of women's roles, and emphasizes the values ​​of women and men in the role of society and nation. Thus the authors placed women in the public sphere. So that they are no longer identified by the notion of tradition synonymous with mere spheres. In poetry writing, the first poem was written by poet Zainun Nasir with the poem "Perempuan Mesti Bangun” (Women Must Wake Up) in 1936. The poem calls on women to rise up to fight for their own fate and not to confine themselves to the prison of tradition. So it doesn't matter those female authors write about psychological disorders.

The KONPEN, the World Poetry Convention 2018, was recently concluded in Kelantan in mid-July, and almost the total majority of the poets were women, in particular from Malaysia and Indonesia. In your opinion, what is the state of female poetic art in Malaysia and Indonesia, actually?

In fact in Malaysia, there has not been a single study that confirms that female poets outnumber men, but in reality,  women seem to dominate everywhere. Not just in literary events, but also in schools, universities, government, and private offices. The same situation can be found in Indonesia. This explains that the position of women is so dominant and so prevalent in today's society.

In general women poets in both countries are very numerous. They produce a lot of works, but in terms of quality, most of them are still behind male authors. In my recent article,  titled "Empowering Women Writers at the Contest/Literary Prize in Malaysia" (May 2020) published in the Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka (DBP), I discussed this issue. From the many contests or literary prizes/awards held in the country, it is apparent that female writers are still lagging in male authors. When viewed in every announcement of a literary contest or literary prize/award, the list dominates the male author. There are, therefore, several discussions that give different views or hypotheses about the cause of this problem. The issue of female writers is often associated with several issues or assumptions, including the following;

1. The work of female writers is said to be incomparable or inferior in comparison to male authors.

2.The existence of female writers in the literary realm is said to be temporary, usually, they will disappear from the map of the hometown literature once they have lived up the stairs.

3. Women writers do not write on important issues, instead they tend to hover around household matters (proving that household issues are considered trivial things).

All of the above views can be partially answered based on observations of the recipient of the prize and hometown literary awards/awards presented below. Some of the data that will be used for the purpose of this discussion is based on the list of winners/ recipients of the Malaysian Literary Prize (HSPM) originally known as the Literary Gifts (HKS), followed by the Malaysian Literary Prize (HSM) observed over a 10-year period (2001-2018 ). HSPM is the nation's highest and most prestigious literary prize, accompanied by works by authors from around the country. HSPM very important role in fueling the development of Malay literature. The authors consider HSPM to be the most prestigious literary gift since the 1970s and to be the most significant recognition of the Malaysian government. Among authors, they consider this gift a validation and recognition ticket for their involvement as a literary author.

Based on HSPM winners since the 1970s, they are found to be female writers and in general this data contradicts the first view above, stating that the work of female writers is not comparable or inferior in comparison to male authors. The Literary Prize of 1972-1976, for example, saw the emergence of female winners. The names of writers such as Fatimah Busu, Khadijah Hashim, Zurinah Hassan, Azmah Nordin and Zaihasra are among the names that were repeatedly crowned the winners of the prestigious literary prize of the season. These success data have opened the eyes of women's writings to obscurity. Not all female writers produce quality works. Yet the number of female writers who have won literary awards is still less than that of male authors.

 

Recently, I spoke with a student who is doing a PHD in Commnication Science at the University with a thesis on the theme of Asian horror movies, and how all the protagonists’ horror, ghost, pocong, kuntilanak, are women. I told her that the film directors are obvious men and that this happens because we men are afraid - unconsciously - of women, because we know that – at last – they are stronger and more intelligent. It is enough to see in Malaysia, in universities, almost all the most important places, at the head of the faculties and universities, there are women. What do you think about it?

I think  I agree with you in the case of horror movies which all of them are women. Men's psychology either consciously or not, from one side to seeing women with a sense of 'fear' because women are stronger and more intelligent. It is evident that in virtually every important place, it is dominated by women like in schools, universities, government offices and everywhere. The same situation applies in Malaysia and Indonesia. So women are regarded as 'pretty ghost' which suffers men's position out there.

 

To conclude, what do you wish for Malaysian women and what are you working on? What will be your next books?

Of course, I would like to see successful Malaysian women, not only in the household but also in their careers as well as in literature. In literature,  in particular, women are still lagging behind in producing quality work. Although we see so many women involved in the literary world, there is not much quality work produced by them so far as male authors. This is evidenced by the fact that fewer female authors receive recognition for their work than male authors.

The passion for publishing books is so prominent among today's female writers. This is good but at the same time, they need to think about how to produce good works and benefit the reader. We want quantity production to be balanced by quality as well. Next,  I want to see more female writers get recognition for the success of their work.

My next book is about female author thinking. While many think that Malaysian female authors do not have a great deal of thought in their work, I would like to point out that some female authors have come forward with good ideas and thought. They must be exposed to the knowledge of the people. Inshaallah.

NORHAYATI AB.RAHMAN (PhD) is Associate Professor at the Malay Literature Department, Malay Studies Academy, University of Malaya, Malaysia. She is teaching specialization in Modern Malay Literature and Traditional Malay Literature, as well as Comparative Literature, as well as Literature and Gender. Her research has been published in hundreds of articles, in the form of papers, journals, chapters in books, and books.

Among the published books are the Puitika Sastera Wanita Indonesia dan Malaysia: Satu Bacaan Ginokritik (2012), The Poetics of Women's Writing in Malaysia and Indonesia: A Gynocritics Reading (2016), Kajian Perempuan Malaysian-Indonesia Dalam Sastra (2016), and Gelaran Warisan Kelantan (2019). Her book, Puitika Sastera Wanita Indonesia dan Malaysia: Satu Bacaan Ginokritik has received the Malaysia Prime Literary Prize (HSPM) in 2013, presented by Deputy Prime Minister, in 2013 in Kuala Lumpur. The same book then received the National Academic Award (AAN), presented by Prime Minister of Malaysia in 2014 at Putrajaya. Her book titled The Poetics of Women's Writing in Malaysia and Indonesia: A Gynocritics Reading (2016) has been exhibited at international festivals worldwide, including Germany, Japan, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, and Italy.

In addition to academic writing, she is interested in creative writing since in school, especially writing poems and short stories. Creative work using pen name Haryatie Ab. Rahman was published in various media such as Watan, Mastika, Dewan Siswa, Dewan Sastera, Mingguan Perdana, Mingguan Famili, Mingguan Wanita, Majalah Nona, Mingguan Malaysia, Berita Minggu, Mingguan Islam, Mingguan Warta Perdana, Berita Minggu, and in some  poetry anthologies, published both inside and outside the country. Her latest poetry collection book, Berguru Pada Sejarah (2018) was published by the Malaysian Institute of Translation and Book (ITBM).

Norhayati Ab. Rahman, (2016). The Poetics of Indonesian And Malaysian Women’s Writing: A Gynocritical Reading. Kuala Lumpur: Institut Terjemahan dan Buku Malaysia (ITBM).

Norhayati Ab. Rahman dan Free Hearty, (2016). Kajian Perempuan Malaysia-Indonesia Dalam Sastra. Jakarta: Yayasan Obor Indonesia.